Heaven's Lights Heaven's Lights: Me and Protestant !!

Wednesday, September 20, 2006

Me and Protestant !!

I should admit my ignorance about Christian denominations. I mean I know the names, but I don't know details and differences. I talked once with a dear friend about that. We just started talking and then, we reached that point when he mentioned that Catholics and Protestants are different. He said then that I talked like Protestant "he is Catholic". So, I amazed by that. I'm Muslim, but we could have same thoughts.

Then, I found a book has brief information about Protestant:

They followed Martin Luther who broke away from Catholic Church and he hanged his famous Protest on its door.

He declared that Christian should submit only for Scripture and nothing else. Only Bible has the authority.

He refused the power of Pope or anyone else and said: pope has no authority.

He said: Churches and Priests have no power to eliminate sins and each one responsible of his own sins.

He refused to pray using non-understandable language as he consider the prayer should be from heart to God.

He refused the idea of bread from Jesus' body and wine from his blood.

He said that the divine Supper was only a reminder from the past.

He denied the monasticism.

He also has forbidden using pictures and statues in churches and prayed for them.

Martin Luther (1483-1546). He was a German priest. He hanged his protest on the door of Wittenberg Church. He translated Bible to German.

I just translated what I found in the book (did I make any mistakes). I think he was somehow right and I guess I agree with him.

Then, I decided to googling about Protestant and this priest. I couldn’t really trust what I found,,, like "Be Careful of Protestant Teachings",, WHY?!!!

Then, I found Martin Luther quotes. I liked some such as :

“I have held many things in my hands, and I have lost them all; but whatever I have placed in God's hands, that I still possess”

“How soon 'not now' becomes 'never'.”

What is the differences between Priests and Bishops??

Can you tell me a little bit about Protestant?

Well, you could say:
Why you want to know all this about Protestant?? Do you want to convert or what? Why don't you ask your Christian Friend?

I just want to know more about it. Just Curiosity! I will not swap Islam with anything no matter what. As for my Christian friend, I want to give him a break and give you the chance to tell me. He was wonderful and gave me "with passion" all links and explained patiently many things I never knew. He was GREAT (besides, he is Catholic and maybe he can't answer about Protestant).
Now, it's your turn. HalalHippie, waiting for your answers. :)


Blogger halalhippie said...

"Now, it's your turn. HalalHippie, waiting for your answers. :)"

I shall do my very best...later... it's 1 am and I got work tomorrow. But I think you got the main points.

9/20/2006 4:20 PM  
Blogger I love Munich said...

RAMADAN MUBARAK to you and your family!
May the holy month of the revelation of Qur'an bring you PEACE, HAPPINESS and PROSPERITY!

May Allah bless you - always!

9/21/2006 11:20 AM  
Blogger Hamze said...

Never Cease to learn, Noor.


9/21/2006 1:08 PM  
Blogger halalhippie said...

Ramadan coming up ? Have a happy one.
(and beer-festival in Munich for u,Karin :-) I gather you're from Protestant background too ?

Hamze: The day one ceases to learn is the the one is old. I'm impressed by Noor's openmindedness.

Defining protestantism is kinda hard for me. When I was a child there were no Catholics and no Muslims around. One Jew in class, that was all. So I never gave it much thought.

When I learned history I was taught roughly the same story you cited. + at the time people believed that after death one would burn in hell until the sins were burned out of the soul. [Purgatory] People would pay money to the priest and get a "certificate" that would make them go straight to heaven. You could even pay for dead realtives. A lot of people were unsatisfied about that, which is why Luther had support from poor people.

In Denmark, the king seized the opportunity to confiscate the money and land that belonged to the church. :-) (politics)

I mentioned the idolatry part in my own post
http://halalhippie.blogspot.com/2006/07/on-idolatry.html on Idolatry (hope this link works)

But that was the Reformation: since the we have fought many bitter wars in Europe about this.

Now, the differences I can think of: Protestants don't confess (go to the priest an tell him about their sins) they use their own language in prayer and songs. They don't pray to saints, only to Jesus and God. They celebrate Xmas eve (24.of december) not Xmas day (25 of december)

There's a lot more differences, I don't know, hope your Catholic friend comes around.

Even in my country you may find "fundamentalists" who don't drink any alcohol, and think dancing is a sin, and "liberals" who are easy-going. Most Danes only go to church to get baptised, married and buried.

One more thing about the protestant Northern Europe: It was never in conflict with the Muslim world. Luckily the Catholic South were in between.

For the record. God is not a Christian, nor a Muslim, nor a Hindu. God is One, divisions are made by us humans.

As such I'm not a Christian, just an imperfect human. Protestant is my cultural background.

9/21/2006 3:57 PM  
Blogger Um Haleema said...

Only a wee bit off topic but I'd be curious to hear what you think of this post and comments over at the Big Pharaoh Noor.


9/21/2006 8:26 PM  
Blogger Tristan Vick said...

I'm Christian, but that's all. I don't declare a denomination, and so everyone places me in one for the sake of labeling I guess. I'm non-denominational, but my family comes from a Prodestant background. If you were curious.

But I have to agree with the Kainer brothers, that Christianity, although it has many sub-divisions, has one over-all belief that unites us all... that Jesus Christ was the son of God. And that there is no dispute with that theology among Christians is quite amazing --from a religious perspective its unheard of.

9/22/2006 5:40 AM  
Blogger Living Away said...

All my life I have questioned my family and many priests about things that I’m not able to understand on catholic church such the eucharistic ritual where people drink wine that represents Jesus’ blood and eat bread that represents Jesus’ body. I always thought, since childhood, that it's so weird. Also I never understood why somebody is electing to represent God on earth, or why priests can’t get married, but what really mess my mind up was/is about an expression that every single catholic mother, at least in Brasil, says when her kids don’t obey her: “Don’t do such a thing because God will punish you!”
This statement is something that I can’t get even now because for me God is love and in my understanding I don’t have to fear love whatsoever!
Eid Mubarak!

9/22/2006 6:58 PM  
Blogger Noor said...

Halal Hippie: so, it's all right and I did no mistakes.
Karin: My Love. Thank you so much. Ramadan Mubarak to all people, Muslims and non-Muslims. It's a blessing month and people can feel it spiritually.
Hamze: yes, I love to know and learn more. I think we will never cease to learn as long as we are still alive.
HalalHippie: thank you. Happy and blessed Ramadan to you too :) ,, No, I think Karin is Catholic. Oh, dear, it's just something we can share and learn from each other. Remember when we talked about that in that post *~* ,, I learnt more and more, more about bread and wine of Jesus' body and blood. More about "certificate". So, it was new things, but I looked at it in the same way of protestants.
Yes, it's understandable that SOME will take the opportunity to deceive poor, simple people who want to be sin-free. I read once story of man came to church to be sin-free and get that certificate or indulgence. Therefore, he paid to priest the money and took his indulgence. When the priest went out in the end of the day, the same man stopped him and took all the money he has. The priest was mad and cried: you will burn in hell. The man smiled and showed the priest the indulgence that he gave it to him and say: No, I will no as long as I have this!!
Also confession thing is not accepted. How I as human go to another human and tell him what I have done. It's something between me and GOD. We can directly pray to GOD and ask for his forgiveness and Mercy.
I think protestant is more realistic and even though I like the songs of Churches, my catholic friend admitted that it's not English. So, they don't know the language.
Well, he doesn't know about my blog yet. I want to tell him, but not now. We are still new friends,,, he is GREAT and LOVING person and outspoken too,,, he is great example of tolerance. I'm so blessed to know great people like you and him in this internet world.
Well, we are sharing this point here; we have now "fundamentalists" and "liberals". I want them to be moderates and take the middle choices. Not nasty bigots or not bad liberals.
As for conflict with Muslims, I don't know about that, once I read that protestant hate Muslims and once they said: catholic hate Muslims. While, I didn't know who's catholic or protestant, more than that, I found out they are sweet and nice people and that rumors and blah blah can cause ugly affect to ordinary people.
Yes, I said that alright. God is one,,, he is the same God who created me, you and all people. Same God who made all this marvelous and endless universe. He is same God that we are all try to reach by own prayers, languages and methods. Same God who knows what we have in our hearts and he is more merciful and closer to us than our families and parents.
Well, I respect ur view, we are imperfect humans who make mistakes and try to learn the right and be good.

UH: hello and sorry if u didn't like my curiosity to know. As for that Big Pharaoh, I never visited his blog and this is my first time indeed. OHM, horrible, I loved Japan and I never knew about this things in Japan. Sobhan Allah, Still imperfect humans. Make horrible things and the best of us is who regrets and asks for forgiveness.
Islam needs no reformed as it came perfect from God. The problem is with people, Humans, did Germany changed Christianity because of Hitler, did westerners changed their religion because of some humanish-animalsih thoughts?!!
If Islam weak and not perfect it will never last and it will never be widespread in all countries. Most of the converters read Holy Koran and touched the real meanings of Islam, so they were convinced to convert. What the first word came in Islam "READ". Islam urges all Muslims, men and women to learn, read, and educate themselves.
Anyway dear, I can't waste my time for this nonsense. Islam is perfect, only humans are using it in bad way or try to twist some texts according to their desires. I didn't listen or follow anyone, I went to Koran and prophet's life and read away from humans and their defaming. Then, I knew who is speak right and give me reasonable speech and who's far away from Islam and try to deceive people and teach them wrong Islam.
See this too-- :)
but, Weird, as it's a must in Islam to (Love your neighbor as yourself)!!!

Tristan: I thought u r catholic. I just felt u r catholic. Anyway, u r both great,, catholic and protestant. I'm happy I met both types and both gave me wonderful impression. :)

Leandra, I asked same questions to my catholic friend and I thought that was just symbolical and not real. But he said it's real!! So I was confused to know that they believe in that for real and not a symbol things.
Ramadan Mubarak Dear, Eid will be after Ramadan :)
Oh, new pic hah, So lovely! :)

9/23/2006 10:03 AM  
Blogger Um Haleema said...

"Islam is perfect, only humans are using it in bad way or try to twist some texts according to their desires."

This makes me think of this verse from The New Testament Matthew 7:15 where Jesus said:
"Watch out for false Prophets. They come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus by their fruit you will recognize them."

I think that if the text was good it could not be twisted in a bad way. Seems to me that the closer a Muslim gets to his Koran (and taking it as perfect and infallible thus too literally)the more intolerant, irrational and violent he seems to get. See Osama bin Laden and some other very outspoken Muslim scholars and clerics. However, the more a Christian reads the words of Jesus the more peaceful,loving and tolerant he becomes. Of course that is only my personal observations.

9/24/2006 10:13 AM  
Blogger Noor said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

9/26/2006 12:54 PM  
Blogger Noor said...

Interesting Um Haleema, u took each word and analysis it as u like it. Well, remember that I can write in Arabic better than English, so sometimes I can't express my exact words in English as it can be in Arabic. (I don't think u can even understand Arabic)
I meant here by "Twisting" word, is taking part of the Ayah or verse, like cutting some words as they like (sometimes, verses came about such events or incidents and some nasty people take parts of that verses to justify their dirty works….even in Christianity and Judaism there is such behavior).
Imagine, some1 has a picture and he cut a small part of the picture, let's say, took part of the edge and gave it to u to find out what it can be. U will never figure out what is this if you didn't collect the whole picture.
"Watch out for false Prophets.", he said PROPHETS, not one prophet. Hmmmm, I have my own suspicion now. Do u know how many claimed that they are Jesus' spirit or Antichrist?!! In a book they said more than 400 men claimed that in France only!!!
U said: (Seems to me that the closer a Muslim gets to his Koran (and taking it as perfect and infallible thus too literally)the more intolerant, irrational and violent he seems to get)
Then, do u think I'm intolerant, irrational and violent. It's all up to u, but taking Osama bin Laden as example of us, can show how much u r far and not even bother urself reading and try to open ur heart and mind and get rid of that fancy world. I noticed that u were intolerant and irrational, and I always said ""Take It Easy Dear"". ,,, Remember !!!
anyway, I didn't study Islam with anyone, I just read and educate myself and I'm 100% sure that Islam is the true road and I'm happy with my life.
U said: (However, the more a Christian reads the words of Jesus the more peaceful,loving and tolerant he becomes. Of course that is only my personal observations.),,
sorry to say that. But some Christians were fluctuating in their faith and when they asked priests, they didn't get any satisfied answers. I love to read stories of new Muslims or ex-Christians or ex-Jews and why they left their own religions and adopted Islam.
عموماً أتمنى لو تعترفي انك تتحدثين العربية أم لا حتى اكتب لك مطولاً بالعربية
وكما قلت لك : بعض الناس الانتهازيين الذين لا يعرفون دين و لا رب يحاولون استغلال الدين مهما كان هذا الدين لأجل صالحهم الخاصة. واقتطاعهم لبعض الكلمات من الآيات دليل خبثهم و عدم ولائهم لأي دين. فهم يحاولون اخذ الكلمات التي تخدمهم من القرآن بغض النظر أنها نزلت في أمر معين أو لوقت معين أو لسبب معين ولا تكون لكل وقت. وهذا وحده كبير و عظيم عند رب العزة.
والله يهدي الجميع.

9/26/2006 12:54 PM  
Blogger Um Haleema said...

It is facinating to read testimonials from people that leave their religion isn't it? Have you ever read these?


9/30/2006 7:46 AM  
Blogger Noor said...

Oh gosh Um Haleema. You rock! Hahahahah. I mean u r great!. Thank u so much for this site. I already found one of these sites weeks ago,, but with this new one, you helped me and confirmed my suspicions.
Now, I can write about it with more certainty.
You don't understand!! Okay, let me find time to prepare my humble view about this issue and God helps!. :)
OH, I will write it in Arabic, but I will try to translate it if I get a time. Hope u can read Arabic too!
Oohh,,, Seems ur friend needs donations from his supporters. lol
Also, seems that humans not ask him, but Salmons, as he said that in Arabic. what a moron!!! lol
And as I told u before, some malicious people cut of some verses of Koran as they like to spread what they think of not what Koran mentioned and meant in that verses. Not to forget, he is Iranian, and I don't trust them and what they do is not islam, they do many things we don't even know!!.

10/04/2006 2:45 AM  
Blogger Um Haleema said...

"you helped me and confirmed my suspicions."
What are you talking about? I can't wait to hear. But I really can't help but wonder what you are so suspicious about? Do you think that you personally know me or something? I told you that you do not.

Who is my friend? Did you not notice that there were at least 50 different stories there? I thought that you loved to read stories about people that leave their religion? You didn't read them? Are their stories not as valid or as interesting as the people leaving other religions?

"he is Iranian, and I don't trust them and what they do is not islam"
I really don't think that you realize that you come off as a very intolerant and racist person at times? I have tried to point that out to you but you always get defensive and you are unable to see it. You talk as if I must be a natural enemy (Jew? I'm not) to think these things. Who are you really to decide what is Islamic? Maybe someone interprets differently than you but isn't that what Islam is? It is for the individual to interpret with their own mind right? It isn't up to us to determine whether another person is a true Muslim or not. Which sect of Islam is the "truth"? You do realize that the majority of the Muslims in the world cannot even read the Koran because they are illiterate or they don't read Arabic? So how are they supposed to know what Islam is besides what people tell them or show them by their actions? So, what are we left with? 10% of the people that claim to be Muslims are "true" Muslims or is that too high? What does that leave the rest of them? I think that saying Muslim is like saying "Christian" as halalhippie showed you there are so many different ways to be Christian and they are all accepted as Christians but it seems that not all Muslims are accepted as Muslims unless they are the right sect in your eyes.

10/04/2006 9:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh honey u h .U got me wrong. Wait 4 me. Im preparing my reasons in arabic. Im using now my brother mobile to check my blog. But i cant write so fast through mobiles
So wait. God bless u .

10/05/2006 2:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh honey u h .U got me wrong. Wait 4 me. Im preparing my reasons in arabic. Im using now my brother mobile to check my blog. But i cant write so fast through mobiles
So wait. God bless u .

10/05/2006 2:20 PM  
Blogger Noor said...

Oh, sweetie Um Halleema, SORRY!! I was checking my blog through my big brother's mobile. He thinks that much easier and he check his e-mails and even send e-mails!!! While I couldn’t even write a comment through mobile, I'm too slow comparing with him :( but at least I can check my blog anytime anywhere.
No, u shocked me with ur reaction and I didn't even think about who u r or even we know each other (I never think about that!!). First of all, I meant by my suspicions is about some acts that done by some groups and that acts are not good or natural (even one of them told me that!!). so, ur new site confirmed my suspicions about how many people rejected these things. Let me tell u in details, but with Arabic. I'm still prepare this post and I don't know how people will accept my declaration.
Second: u attacked me now and u didn't even wait till I give u my post, u called a racist and intolerant, so let me think about for a second. If I'm really like that, should I wait and delay my chance to attack anyone if I have my reasons and strong reasons indeed. No, I tried not to do that, but I still respect ur opinion, and maybe I'm racist and intolerant and I can't really see that through my own eyes and heart. Hope God will help me to see my faults and mistakes to repair them. Pray for me.
Also, remember I didn't even say even once I'm with that sect or other. I just noticed some things I considered it not right, so it's a time for me to tell why, especially who left Islam and put some of that as reasons while not all Muslims do the same or even know about that!!.
Yes, I love to read stories of who embraced Islam and the reasons is that they notice some little details in our religion that we don't even look at it. They help us to see new angles and perspectives. That really make me happy and get more fond to my religion. I didn't mean that the other religions are wrong and we are right, while we do that sometimes. But, still.
As for the stories in that site, I just opened randomly some of them, my notices: some left Islam because of their misfortune and blamed Islam for what happened to them. Yes, they faced bad and horrible times, but why blaming Islam. If that happened to them and they are in different religion, r they gonna to leave their religion??!! Some others left Islam because of non-trusted issues. Like that who's his mother swear by ALI , not GOD?!! What is this?!!!
Let me see and try to bring out my post and still in Arabic and not complete.

10/07/2006 3:34 AM  

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